Let's talk carrying capacity

[sagittarius]

Originally Posted by scrimshaw33

According to American whitetail (http://www.northamericanwhitetail.co...2landscaping/), mature hardwoods provide 300 lbs of food/acre while a clearcut provides 1500 lbs of forage/acre, but only 1/2 of the clearcut forage is desirable forage, or 750 lbs. They also state that you cannot permit deer to eat more than 1/2 of the a desirable forage without risking it being decimated, which would leave only 375 lbs of forage available to deer in a clearcut setting, about the same amount of food as a hardwood setting.

One acre of food plots (soybeans, clover, corn) can range in forage production from 1-5 tons/acre. Compare that to forage in a clearcut or hardwoods.

I just think it's worthwhile considering that if you already have hardmast (acorns) and provide some soft mast (apples or other) is planting all these other desirables worth it? Sure it's fun, but I'm not talking about fun I'm talking about what works.

Ed Spinnazola(sp?) indicated in his book that a mature forest may only supply 50 lbs of forage/acer, but that could depend on forest type.

So do the math, this is the fun part. Average deer eats about 2000 lbs of forage per year. Using that 375 lbs of sustainable rejuvinating forage in a clear cut ... it takes about 5.3 acres of clear cut to support one deer per year at a sustainable rate. Thus at peak sustainable output, a sq/mile clear cut may support 120 deer/sq mile. But then as the forest matures, the forage output can decrease significantly.

So, what do foodplots do the formula? Do they increase the quanity, quality, and diversity of the surrounding prefered native habitat? As many have observed, it don't happen. So is it still worth planting and caging/tubing highly prefered native browse species.... absolutely!

What I like to keep askink/reminding myself is ... were these native browse species ever in the area before ... and why are they not here now?

[scrimshaw33]

So do the math, this is the fun part. Average deer eats about 2000 lbs of forage per year. Using that 375 lbs of sustainable rejuvinating forage in a clear cut ... it takes about 5.3 acres of clear cut to support one deer per year at a sustainable rate. Thus at peak sustainable output, a sq/mile clear cut may support 120 deer/sq mile. But then as the forest matures, the forage output can decrease significantly.

So, what do foodplots do to the formula? Do they increase the quanity, quality, and diversity of the surrounding prefered native habitat? As many have observed, it don't happen. So is it still worth planting and caging/tubing highly prefered native browse species.... absolutely!

Sagg, they (food plots) don't "increase the quantity, quality and diversity of surrounding native habitat", but food plots at 5 tons/acre can provide significant forage for deer in the form of FOOD, if that's your focus.

I feel I can create the thickest habitat in town for cover through hinge cutting on my property in patches every few years. This also encourages native habitat, but possibly not the soft mast that I might plant from coldstream nursery or elsewhere.

But my point is, how much food do you need and if we take the approach of putting our efforts into planting food plots for FOOD, and second, performing activities such as controlled burns, hinge cuttings, select cutting, clear cutting, timber harvests to maximize COVER, is that the best we can do.

Would planting plants like from Coldstream (dogwood, nanyberry, arrowwood, elderberry, etc.) really provide that much food and does it provide any better cover than we could create by easier methods such as hinge cutting?

Also as someone mentioned there are unforeseen occurrences that could happen by drawing more deer in...destruction of all those plants you planted for the deer.

[sagittarius]

Originally Posted by scrimshaw33

But my point is, how much food do you need and if we take the approach of putting our efforts into planting food plots for FOOD, and second, performing activities such as controlled burns, hinge cuttings, select cutting, clear cutting, timber harvests to maximize COVER, is that the best we can do.

Would planting plants like from Coldstream (dogwood, nanyberry, arrowwood, elderberry, etc.) really provide that much food and does it provide any better cover than we could create by easier methods such as hinge cutting?

So why provide the food, native or foodplots? Are we ecologically concerned over the health and diversity of the native habitat that naturally supports deer? Or, are the deer, and what is left of the habitat, so unhealthy that foodplots are required to maintain the high deer populations hunters demand? How well do we want the deer to live ,and why? What is "best" is up to the opinion of each individual, their knowledge, and past experiences.

Foodplots, or native habitat improvements, ... or some measure of both. Is that the best we can do? .... Perhaps ... each hunter, land owner, foodplotter needs to decide that for their own conscious and situation. Each year I do a bit of both. While I greatly enjoy every aspect of foodplotting, there is more deep satisfaction in securing native habitat improvements for future generations. JMHO

Doing both native plantings and foodplots is a huge learning oportunity to observe deer browse preferences. Each month I ask myself "why are these deer (20 dpsm) decimating this (elderberry, plum, service berry, maple, oak, highbush cranberry, hazelnut ... ) when there is lush clover, soybeans, corn just a few feet away??

[criggster]

Would planting plants like from Coldstream (dogwood, nanyberry, arrowwood, elderberry, etc.) really provide that much food and does it provide any better cover than we could create by easier methods such as hinge cutting

I think that planting trees and shrubs may provide them with some food, but it depends on the type of plant, whether or not it produces, whether or not it matures or is eaten as browse instead. And, I don't think you could get any better or easier cover than by logging and hinge cutting. I only plant trees and shrubs for cover in a situation where I want to speed-up the natural process and provide screening moreso than actual cover.

After the loggers are finished I will go in and rearrange things to create bedding pockets and I may plant some fast growing shrubs in those areas for out side screening. I will leave the rest to naturally regenerate and plan to hinge cut as needed. I would rather plant something that will provide a good screen in three years rather than wait five or more.

[letemgrow]

Originally Posted by scrimshaw33

Would planting plants like from Coldstream (dogwood, nanyberry, arrowwood, elderberry, etc.) really provide that much food and does it provide any better cover than we could create by easier methods such as hinge cutting?

Also as someone mentioned there are unforeseen occurrences that could happen by drawing more deer in...destruction of all those plants you planted for the deer.

That is why I will always keep some shrubs of all the species I plant in places deer cannot get to them, or have permanent fencing around them so the birds/critters will eat the seeds and spread them out for me.

Shrubs like eastern wahoo on my farm can only be found where deer cannot get to them so that tells me its an ice cream plant and I would not want it to disappear from my farm because of deer, other species benefit from it as well.

[scrimshaw33]

That's a good idea let em grow: You could almost cage an entire section of berry producing shrubs/trees to promote natural dispersal.

[scrimshaw33]

So why provide the food, native or foodplots? Are we ecologically concerned over the health and diversity of the native habitat that naturally supports deer? Or, are the deer, and what is left of the habitat, so unhealthy that foodplots are required to maintain the high deer populations hunters demand? How well do we want the deer to live ,and why?

I'm referring to what works for increase hunter to mature deer sightings. I'm just saying we know food plots produce a lot of deer, and we know early succession produces a lot of cover as do evergreens and NWSGs. I'm just questioning how much more value planting shrubs and trees gives if your property is already at its capacity.

Believe me, I as much anyone love planting shrubs and trees and habitat development. I'm just throwing some thoughts out there to get us thinking and to answer some of my questions.

What is "best" is up to the opinion of each individual, their knowledge, and past experiences.

Sort of, but I think there is evidence in the form of research that probably has looked at some of these topics and can show what actually is "best" rather than opinion.

[lone cedar farm]

I see multiple groups of does coming out and going in the same cover it tells me they are bedding close and must be plenty of browse to sustain the diffirent grops.

[Dogwood]

Originally Posted by scrimshaw33

I'm referring to what works for increase hunter to mature deer sightings. I'm just saying we know food plots produce a lot of deer, and we know early succession produces a lot of cover as do evergreens and NWSGs. I'm just questioning how much more value planting shrubs and trees gives if your property is already at its capacity.


Sort of, but I think there is evidence in the form of research that probably has looked at some of these topics and can show what actually is "best" rather than opinion.

All deer are not created equal. Just ask Don Higgins...
Mature deer (read: "bucks") utilize specific habitat features/types of vegetation/food sources/bedding areas. By simplying working to raise the carrying capacity of your property, you are not, necessarily, going to increase the number of mature deer that will make use of the property.
If you are looking to increase the number of mature buck sightings, then you need to focus on types of features that appeal, most, to them (specifically). For example, if you're goal is to increase the carrying capacity (or, total number of deer that utilize the property, on a regular and consistant basis), you might want to incorporate a sizable area, dedicated to "fawning cover". This would be early successional cover, with some NWSG and shrubs, but lots of forbs, and high protien browse, with ample ground cover. Not too thick, but plenty of privacy screening; loads of food for optimal milk production, and lots of places to hide a fawn. This is great stuff, and many of us would be glad to add more places like this to our property. But, if you add too much of this, you will create a "doe sink". Every doe in your section will stake her claim on a piece of it, because you will have created THE place, to drop a fawn. This would certainly do well to increase the deer 'population', on your farm, but it would do litlle to help with your effort, as a hunter, to see more mature bucks.
You are right, scrim, that diversity is the key. You want to try to "over-do" something...? Try adding too much diversity. It can't be done. Now, it could make it more difficult to hunt, but you will definately be seeing good deer activity, and plenty of mature animals will call your haven, "home". Some of the easiest places to hunt, are the ones that really don't have much to offer to deer. Travel patterns are very predictable, because there are a limited number of places on the property, that a deer would want to go. "Difficult to hunt" is not a bad problem to have, if you ask me. That usually means that the potential is great, for a memorable encounter.

[sagittarius]

Originally Posted by scrimshaw33

I'm referring to what works for increase hunter to mature deer sightings. I'm just saying we know food plots produce a lot of deer, and we know early succession produces a lot of cover as do evergreens and NWSGs. I'm just questioning how much more value planting shrubs and trees gives if your property is already at its capacity.

Capacity? which capacity? Doe capacity, fawning capacity, population capacity, habitat healthy capacity, overall wildlife support capacity, or ... mature buck capacity? Lots to think about!

Originally Posted by scrimshaw33

Believe me, I as much anyone love planting shrubs and trees and habitat development. I'm just throwing some thoughts out there to get us thinking and to answer some of my questions.

Yes, this is where real habitat manipulation comes in. Don Higgins insites would be invaluable. I still plan on getting his book one of these days.

Originally Posted by scrimshaw33

Sort of, but I think there is evidence in the form of research that probably has looked at some of these topics and can show what actually is "best" rather than opinion.

Yes, absolutely. How to utilize that research, and implement a habitat plan, is where individual variations occur.